Video grab from the BBC of Prime Minister Bruce Golding being interviewed by Stephen Sackur on BBC's interview programme Hardtalk on Monday. - Photo courtesy of the BBC
IN a BBC Hardtalk interview broadcast yesterday on BBC World News and the BBC News Channel, Stephen Sackur spoke with Prime Minister Bruce Golding. Jamaica was recently described as the world's most murderous country. The following are excerpts from the transcript provided to The Gleaner by BBC Hardtalk.
GOLDING ON policing
Do you trust the Jamaican police force?
There are members in the Jamaican police force that can't be trusted. This is part of our problem.
How many of them can't be trusted?
It's difficult to put a number on it. Since the start of this year, some 30 have been arrested for corruption. So that we are working to rid the force of those elements within it which are compromising its effectiveness and in fact putting its own security at risk.
It's more than just 30, isn't it? If one reads the Amnesty International report that came out in April, one gets the picture of a police force that is fundamentally rotten.
Amnesty International can of course afford to speak in hyperbolic terms. We can't. We have to go on the facts. We have to put in place a programme that seeks to identify those who ought not to be there, those who ought to be apprehended and punished.
It is not hyperbole to point out that the Jamaican police force has killed over 1,400 Jamaican citizens between 2000 and 2007
Yes - and what is the Government doing about it? We have brought to Parliament - or presented to Parliament just two weeks ago - legislation to create an independent investigative authority that will have the power to investigate instances of excess use of power, abuses by members of the security forces - that's an election commitment we've given and that's a commitment we're in the process of keeping.
How many senior police officers have you fired since you came to power?
I can't fire them. Under our laws I don't have that power.
How many senior police officers have you suggested to the authorities that can fire them, should be fired?
I dare not do that either. If I did that, that's political interference. Under the Constitution there is a police service commission that has that power. A number of them have been retired within the last 12 months. But much of the decisions that are going to be taken affecting the structure of the organisation rest with the strategic review that has just been completed.
Golding's views on homosexuality in Jamaica - would he consider having gays in the Cabinet?
Jamaica's attitude to homosexuality. That is a problem: If you listen to Human Right's Watch, Rebecca Schlieffer - she says homophobia in Jamaica is the worst that she has ever seen. The New York Times just ran a big story a couple of months ago. There was a case in Mandeville - a crowd storming a house. Four men having dinner were trapped and brutally assaulted because they were believed to be gay - and that was not unusual. What are you doing about it?
Well, we have given instructions that crimes against persons because of their sexual orientation must be pursued with the same vigour of any other crime.
But they are not, are they?
Generally speaking they are - they are now. We do have a long-standing culture that is very opposed to homosexuality. I think that is changing. I believe there is greater acceptance now that people have different lifestyles, that their privacy must be respected.
Are you more accepting now ... because in 2006 you were quoted in the Sunday Herald newspaper: "Homosexuals will find no solace in any cabinet formed by me."
In appointing a cabinet, a PM exercises judgement. That is his exclusive responsibility. There is no right to be in a cabinet.
But you have just told me that Jamaica is on track to give equality before the law to homosexuals - but you yourself have said that "homosexuals will find no solace in a cabinet formed by me?"
That has nothing to do with equality before the law?
Do you not have a duty to consider people on their merits - for cabinet positions indeed in any part of government?
No. I consider people in terms of their ability and the extent to which they are going to be able to exercise their function, their independence.
You also clearly and patently consider them in terms of their sexuality.
No. That's a decision that I make. That's a decision that every prime minister makes. A prime minister must decide what he feels would represent to the Jamaican people a cabinet of ministers who will be able to discharge their function without fear, without favour, without intimidation. I make that choice.
What kind of signal does that send about Jamaica to the outside world? Indeed, to potential investors, to countries that look at Jamaica.
One signal that it sends is that Jamaica is not going to allow values to be imposed on it from outside. We are going to have to determine that ourselves and we are going to have to determine to what extent those values will adopt over time - to change in perception and to change in understanding as to how people live. But it can't be on the basis that lobby groups far and away from Jamaica will define for Jamaica how it must establish its own standards and its own morals.
Do you want to live in a Jamaica in the future where homosexuals can be a part of your cabinet or any cabinet?
I want to live in a Jamaica where persons are free to (pauses) conduct their private relations. But I am not talking about leading Jamaica in a direction where its own values are going to be assaulted by others.
With respect, that was not an answer to my question. Let me put it to you one more time: Do you in the future want to live in a Jamaica where a gay man or a gay woman could be in the cabinet?
Sure they can be in the cabinet - but not mine.
Well they can't be in yours ...
Not mine!
No, but do you want ...
Not mine!
Do you want to live in a Jamaica where they can be and they should be and it would be entirely natural for them to do so?
I do not know that that is the direction in which we will go.
